At the Sept. 23 meeting of the Oyster Bay Civic Association, members of the East Norwich Civic Association attended, to show their joint concern. The meeting was held at the Italian-American building on Summit Street.

The first speaker during the Question and Answer period was Wendy Russell, a lifelong resident of Oyster Bay. She said with the addition of AvalonBay: "The word hamlet is not going to exist." She said the only people who care about Oyster Bay are those who live here. She said the complex would only add to the traffic and that there was no parking in the hamlet already.

Matthew B. Whalen, VP Development AvalonBay Communities said that while previously they had suggested that residents would walk to the hamlet to shop, he said they would provide a shuttle service to the hamlet, realizing there is a parking problem in the downtown area.

Brian McGee, who has lived here 25 years, questioned the expert testimony on the number of children who would live in AvalonBay. He said two more children and the school district would have a deficit of $7,000, which would be paid by taxpayers.

He questioned the amount of money the experts said would be spent locally saying he didn't spend 35 percent of his income "just in this town."

Mr. Whalen said that was a fair comment and that they were considering a five mile radius. Mr. McGee said there are no furniture stores locally and that would mean big-ticket items to purchase. Mr. Whalen said "We've seen retail stores put into towns after we come to town."

Bob King of East Norwich said, "Our concern is because we live at the top of a hill where all traffic is coming. We can't get out of our side streets now. A woman was recently killed at Hawthorne Road and Route 106. There are too many families in the unit. Also I take exception to the money spent. No big chain is going to be dragged here."

Mike Maloney asked how many two-bedroom apartments they would have. The answer was 135. He said, "In all common sense, there will be at least one child in each two bedroom apartment. One or two children, so 48 children is the wrong number. There will be 100 to 150 kids in a 300-unit apartment complex. It will increase everyone's school taxes."

He said further, "Island Properties shut this whole town down and let stores go vacant." He said the Cold Spring Harbor oil terminal has been shut down and now twice the number of barges are bringing oil into the Commander Oil facility. [Residents in Cove Neck have noted the increased barge traffic going into the harbor as opposed to when the CSH facility was open.] Mr. Maloney said the tanker trucks drive up Route 106 all through the night. He suggested people take notice and count how many trucks are coming down the highway now.

Mr. Maloney added, when considering the rental statistics, Long Island is different from other areas. [Ms. Elkowitz said that statistically renters have fewer children than homeowners.] He said people renting here have children. "I'm a landlord too," he said, qualifying his comment.

Mr. Whalen said "We rent a 2-bedroom apartment to two adults" and said they weren't going to convert to a low income housing in response to Mr. Maloney's comment about renting apartments through Section Eight in case they didn't get enough renters.

Bill Colombo, former mayor of Old Westbury and now an East Norwich resident said he has heard traffic experts testify over the years and that statistics aren't truthful. He said, "there is a traffic problem here in Oyster Bay and East Norwich."

Jack Williams, president of Friends of the Bay asked how many people would live at AvalonBay? Mr. Whalen said between 460 to 470. With that answer, Mr. Williams took a different look at the problem in terms of sewage generation. He said, "Compared to a supermarket, there will be a lot more sewage that will go into the plant and no matter how well maintained it is, there will be mandatory shellfish closings as a result. The Oyster Bay Harbor provides 90 percent of the shellfish in New York State. Adding effluent, no matter how clear - more gallonage means more closings." Expert witness Robert Eschbacher of Eschbacher Associates said they have to make an application to the Oyster Bay Sewer District to evaluate the pipes and plant size to see if it won't overload the system. Mr. Williams said, "I'm not talking about malfunction. Volume causes automatic closings." Pierre Brandt said, "We'll have to build another plant in the park." Mr. Whalen replied, they now own two sewage treatment plants, here on Long Island.

Mr. Williams added that AvalonBay was offering sizable concessions for people to move into their Glen Cove complex. Mr. Whalen said the Glen Cove apartments are 85 percent leased in only 18 months and added it is almost all rented. He said the concessions are "pretty typical in the industry as Westchester, New Jersey and Washington D.C. are trying to pull business elsewhere. Also because interest rates are so low, people are picking home ownership." He said 50 percent of the renters are under age 35 and come from the Mineola area and Queens.

Chris Papas of Mill Neck questioned the disruption that would be caused by construction trucks coming to the area. Mr. Whalen said they would work with the town and the state on a logistics plan for construction. It is a challenge, he said.

Bud Rappuhn of East Norwich had a unique solution to the problems that offered less traffic, no more sewage and no children for the school system. He suggested a cemetery. He said today, they have no headstones, but use flat plates, a great deal of landscaping and need only a small office building: it would be a light use of the land. "It increases in business every year. It would add to the community and alleviate fears of development," he said. There was applause and laughter at his suggestion.

Jack Schiech, president of the Beautification Committee of East Norwich said AvalonBay asked if they had considered the impact or benefit to East Norwich. He said, "We have a traffic impact on Radcliff, Hawthorne and Peachtree Roads. We can't get out onto Route 106. There's a problem there now."

Marie Knight, president of the Oyster Bay Civic Association said she and Matthew Meng, president of the East Norwich Civic Association and Rashid Walker, AvalonBay development director discussed an independent traffic study be done and she asked Mr. Whalen if he would pay for it. Mr. Whalen nodded his agreement and Ms. Knight asked him to "put it in writing."

Charles Doering of Oyster Bay said the 300 units are too big for Oyster Bay. "Would you consider 80 to 100 units and more green-space?" Mr. Whalen said, "It's not going to work as a 100-unit complex, 10 percent smaller maybe."

Another man asked some specific questions about cash flow and percent of return on investments and where it becomes unprofitable and they have to abandon ship and Mr. Whalen said, "That is not information typically shared."

Mr. Colombo added another element to the issues. He said at the AvalonBay site in Suffolk, after their complex was built in an industrial area, their subdivision petitioned to stop trucks from using the roads, something that hurt Mr. Colombo's printing plant that has been there for 25 years.

Another resident asked the audience to consider that "Charles Wang and Island Properties are the guys who have to be fought on this! It should be scaled down to 100 units. It has to be scaled down or it will destroy the town." There was applause.

Mr. Whalen said there is an attached value on the site.

The man continued saying, "Your project means $400,000 a month income to Mr. Wang and it will destroy Oyster Bay with traffic."

In response to a question from Charles Gaulken, Mr. Whalen said they are in a pre-application program, that they are not filing an application at this point, that they are trying to gather support for the project. Pre-application is a new process of informal feedback from the town. It helps developers to talk to the town before they pay for plans to be drawn up, and to keep them within town guidelines for the work planned. "When and if we do go for an application, it's going to be a long road," he said. The current moratorium on applications for residential development of industrial sites affects AvalonBay, he said.

Mr. Whalen said the project process includes an application and an environmental impact study. They will either apply for a change of zone or a special use permit according to their lawyers' decision on which way to go. When they submit their application , the town gives copies to all the agencies involved. They have 60 days to review the material. Then AvalonBay does an Environmental Impact Study and the town reviews it and there is a public hearing. The final EIS is done and the town issues findings and their decision. The process takes 18 months at least.

A lady real estate agent questioned that people would rent the $3,000 apartments, saying for that amount they could buy a house and gain equity. She said currently there were apartments available at Norwich Gate, a rental community on Pine Hollow Road across from Stop & Shop. She questioned the location of AvalonBay, saying they are next to a 24-hour business, Mill Max Mfg. across from a bar and the Sagamore automotive collision repair business and added, "We are far from the Expressway."

Mr. Whalen said renting is for those people who don't have the funds for a mortgage down payment. He said, "We've studied Long Island and if you build it they will come. That's true of the last five units we've built. We are not renting to New York City residents, but people from Mineola and Queens.

A man said, "You're getting nothing but negative feedback. Doesn't it matter that no one wants you here?"

Mr. Whalen said they had heard it was too big and changed the front of the building. He said at the previous open meeting on the former Hallock site there were 165 people and in general there was mostly positive feedback. He called all the comments "valuable feedback."

Fire safety was brought up as the meeting ended. An AvalonBay representative said this is not the final design. "It has to be approved by the fire marshal. No one is willing to allow us to build without that."

Ms. Knight said ballots would be mailed to members to send back with their comments about the AvalonBay proposal.